2019-20 Coaching Discussion: The Jon Cooper Watch

Discussion in 'Tampa Bay Lightning' started by unfinishedbusiness91, Oct 7, 2019.

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  1. Five Alarm Fire

    Five Alarm Fire Registered User

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    I would rather have Montgomery. **** ethics.
     
  2. Felonious Python

    Felonious Python Minor League Degenerate

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  3. Todd1a

    Todd1a Kucherov or prospect

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  4. Master P

    Master P Registered User

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    [​IMG]
     
  5. Felonious Python

    Felonious Python Minor League Degenerate

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    DeBoer is a guy who (at least in SJ) tried to avoid giving the big star forwards PK time. I don't think that's what should happen here. We need a sacrifice mentality and killing penalties is part of that.

    SJ has heavier, and older, star forwards, so it's more about giving them a break then sending the wrong message.
     
    Last edited: Dec 12, 2019
  6. AlwaysSunnyInTampa

    AlwaysSunnyInTampa LOLZ! This friggin sucks dude!

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    DeBoer isn't bad. I'd rather have Lavi
     
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  7. Master P

    Master P Registered User

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    Just browsing comments about this online and from what I can tell he is basically a clone of Cooper.
    Dump and chase and doesn't adjust.
     
  8. Hint1k

    Hint1k Registered User

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    That reminds me of a boxer. Who liked to adjust. Once he adjusted himself on the rink to his opponents actions so much that he ended up in the corner with no way out of it.

    My point is that on this forum, the ability of a coach to adjust become some kind of pure good thing to have. While in reality it's not. Most of the time a team should not blindly react to everything the opponent does better. It should play its own game, even if it looks like a disadvantage from the first view. The ability of a coach to stubbornly keep doing what he does and dictate the play to the opponent as is important as the ability to adjust.
     
    Last edited: Dec 11, 2019
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  9. Stammertime91

    Stammertime91 Keep on keepin' on!

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    I don't want DeBoer. I think he's more of the same. If Laviolette is fired, we need to fire Cooper and get him. He's what this team needs.
     
  10. JoVel

    JoVel Registered User

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    Deboer is the fifth coach to be fired since the Red Wings last won a game.
     
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  11. Master P

    Master P Registered User

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    agreed
     
  12. LightningStrikes

    LightningStrikes Elite Fan

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    You might be right and sure, the regular season is a different thing, you face a different team almost every game and under different circumstances (travel, back-to-backs, injuries, trades). So you stick to your guns and keep doing what's been working. But come playoffs this changes. Game plans, tactics, strategies, line/player matchups and scouting the opponent become a lot more important. The game gets slower and heavier, there are fewer penalty calls (and consequently fewer powerplays). A quick game of checkers with lots of space becomes a tight game of chess and a single mistake could cost the game or even the series.

    Damn, would I have loved to see Cooper actually adjust his game plan for once in the playoffs. Like, take the Washington ECF series in 2018. We blew two (!) elimination games and didn't score a single (!) goal in both games. Meanwhile, Washington, down 2-3 in the series (after leading it 2-0) and with their backs pushed up against the wall, identified our holes and accurately exploited them. Cooper, like the entire team, was in a state of shock. Same story in 2016 against Pittsburgh, when we blew another 2-3 series lead in an ECF. And the Columbus series last season was a whole new level of fail.

    Constructive auto-criticism and constant reevaluation of the situation and performance does not only not hurt, it's an absolute must, at least in the playoffs. Do the things we did well last week and and that won us games still work today against this other team? If not, what are our weaknesses? How do we fix them? What are their weaknesses and how can we exploit them? All three playoff series mentioned above could have been won with the respective Lighting roster at the time. I am convinced of that.

    But it's like we had this beautiful flower and we watered it every two days and put some fertilizer in there every week and it grew and grew and got more beautiful every week. It was a great spring. The early summer came, and suddenly, it started losing its leaves and its colors went pale. Coach Cooper thought to himself "how can this be?" and put more water and more fertilizer. His neighbor's (his name was Tarry Brotz btw) flower was beautiful as ever. Odd. Brotz had figured out that at that time of the year, with weather conditions as they were, he had to move his flower into the sun, sheltered from wind and put less water. Coach Cooper never knew or thought about it that much. By May, his flower had turned brown and shrunk. He shrugged and said "it wasn't its time", and unwrapped a pack of chewing gum. Only after the season it began growing green little branchlets again and after a while it became a beautiful plant again. But for how long will it last this time?
     
    Last edited: Dec 12, 2019
  13. Maelmoor

    Maelmoor HFBoards Sponsor Sponsor

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    I personally think the criticism of a coach not adjusting is more or less fabricated by fans.

    First of all this is something pretty much all fanbases say about their coaches, secondly it's next to impossible to know whether it's true or not. Where is the line drawn between not "adjusting" and the opponent's countering your adjustments or the player's failing to execute according to the adjustments?

    There are just too many factors to consider and we don't even know all of them.
     
  14. Felonious Python

    Felonious Python Minor League Degenerate

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    It's not as easy as the video games to make some in-game changes as well, especially if it's not part of their bag of tricks. Players get confused what they're supposed to do.
     
  15. Master P

    Master P Registered User

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    I mean its blatantly obvious in the playoffs.
     
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  16. Felonious Python

    Felonious Python Minor League Degenerate

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    Is it a lack of making in-game corrections, lack of preparation, or a roster unequipped to the playoff game?
     
  17. LightningStrikes

    LightningStrikes Elite Fan

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    Yes and no. I mean Washington and Columbus in particular played a very similar game against us: Clog the middle (aka the infamous neutral zone trap), force us to dump and chase, collapse on the puck, repeat. And they played the body whenever they could. Our smallish finesse players got clearly frustrated and discouraged. Both times we had no answer. All we did was continue to rely on our skill and speed and hope for a timely powerplay that didn't come. Like banging your head against a wall over and over, instead of looking for a hammer or finding a way around the wall.

    While I do agree that the lack of adjustments or the lack of the ability to adjust gets thrown around a lot by fans - and I'm sure you'll find it on every team's subforum whenever their team is losing - we do have seen an actual lack of adjustments by the coaches and/or an inability to execute said adjustments by the players in at least two separate instances. Cooper's Lightning always struggle against trapping and/or physical teams. Hard to say whether it's inability of the coach or the players or both. The issue remains the same though.
     
    Last edited: Dec 12, 2019
  18. Felonious Python

    Felonious Python Minor League Degenerate

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    That's a beautiful paragraph.
     
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  19. Letsgobolts21

    Letsgobolts21 Registered User

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    What about the adjustments against Boston 2 years ago. Blitzed in game 1, then 4 straight. The Caps series as well---lost first 2 games, then 3 straight. We can't run him down for never adjusting, but then fail to give him credit when they turn it around in a series as well.
     
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  20. Master P

    Master P Registered User

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    Combination of in-game corrections and lack of preparation imo. The team was clearly not prepared to play in the playoffs last year and you can go back to the pens series and see his inability to make adjustments, the biggest example of this was the caps series.
     
  21. Master P

    Master P Registered User

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    Boston was a one line team that relied on their PP to score. The only reason the bolts were in that caps series was because of Vassy, without him that series is over in 5.
     
  22. Hint1k

    Hint1k Registered User

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    Why Bolts should adjust in the first place? Bolts should play their fast offensive game and let the other team try to find a way to stop us.

    Its not so obvious since some fans blame Cooper for inability to adjust and some for: "protecting the lead", "playing defensive game", "changing team face", "team does not built to play this game" - which are examples of adjustment.
     
  23. Hint1k

    Hint1k Registered User

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    This is not a unique Bolts problem or unique Cooper's problem. The trap is the problem for every team. Especially fast, offensive and talented team. The whole point of the trap was to stop teams like these.

    The only way to beat it (more or less reliably) it is to play cautious defensive game. Lets ask how many fans here wants to see Bolts playing cautious defensive games? How many complaints Cooper already got for "changing the team's face, cause team does not built to play this game" ?
     
    Last edited: Dec 12, 2019
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  24. Master P

    Master P Registered User

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    My issue is that he doesn't adjust when teams find a way to stop us. He keeps having them play the same way when it isn't working.
     
  25. Felonious Python

    Felonious Python Minor League Degenerate

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    This is an important thing that we haven't really defined. How big of adjustments are we really talking here? Tweaks to their game they should be able to do, but big changes are trickier.

    The whole reason for dump-and-chase (as an option) is to be durable enough to play against trapping teams. Then when we run into the inevitable issue of having a team that's not used to doing it, we want to go back to last year's game and think that it won't haunt us.
     
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