Speculation: Discussing the Next GM (Part 2)

Discussion in 'Montreal Canadiens' started by CrAzYNiNe, Dec 2, 2019.

  1. Tighthead

    Tighthead Registered User

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    I maintain that if you got a French speaking hockey President in, you could get by with a unilingual GM.

    It didn’t work in Vancouver for other reasons, but when Linden was President he spoke more than Benning. Linden is well spoken, and respected and borderline worshipped there. Benning is a terrible public speaker, and it served to insulate him from ridicule.

    Hiring the right President would not only open up options at GM, it would also be an upgrade at an important position. As much as I think MB is out of his depth, having a guiding hand in his first few seasons might have helped him tremendously.
     
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  2. ECWHSWI

    ECWHSWI bought a MB jersey

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    remember what hapopened to those (players, staff) who said they will learn ??

    They ?? Oh! Sure, you can focus on the few (yes the few) who mocked his accent, you can also focus on the few (yes, the few again) who mocked Koivu, I mean... if you like being angry.
     
  3. Wats

    Wats Error 520

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    They should get someone who is committed to drafting and development.

    People defended Bergevin and his team for years saying the reason the prospect pool was so mediocre/bad was because of the 08-11 drafts. Fast forward to today and 12-15 looks worse than 08-11 despite having more/better picks.
     
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  4. Lshap

    Lshap Hardline Moderate

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    In fairness, they also made fun of Therrien's french (just as we made fun of his english). Poking fun at someone's accent is childish, but it's part of the scenery and hasn't affected the jobs of any of our coaches or GMs.
     
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  5. waffledave

    waffledave waffledave, from hf

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    The few who mocked them and the many who stayed silent while it happened.
     
  6. ECWHSWI

    ECWHSWI bought a MB jersey

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    exactly, a few.
     
  7. ECWHSWI

    ECWHSWI bought a MB jersey

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    exactly, not worth being angry about
     
  8. waffledave

    waffledave waffledave, from hf

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    It's a question of respect. They cry about people not speaking french and then when they do, they make fun of them. How do you think it would go down if guys on Sportsnet starting making jokes about Danault's english, or hell if they made jokes about the accents of the the french media guys? You think they'd just laugh it off? I seem to recall that such a big deal was made when Shane Doan allegedly called a linesman a "frog" that it ended up being investigated in the national assembly.
     
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  9. ECWHSWI

    ECWHSWI bought a MB jersey

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    still focusing on the few ??

    ok, you do that...
     
  10. waffledave

    waffledave waffledave, from hf

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    These few are still on TV. You don't see a problem with that, I'm sure.
     
  11. TooLegitToQuit

    TooLegitToQuit Loyal Habs Fan

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    08-11 drafts had bad drafting power and bad results. It's too be expected. 12-15 draft years had mid range drafting power and bottom of the league in results. There is no mistake about it, the 12 and 13 drafts are very disappointing in terms of hitting based on our draft power. But we do have the advantage of knowing how deep those drafts were today though. They were not good so we had great drafting power in the wrong drafts. It's bad luck and bad results. Bad all around

    Here is the biggest question for you... Do you think the 12/13 drafts = the 17/18 drafts in the end in terms of NHL production and producing NHL players? Drafting power in all 4 drafts were very close.
     
  12. Wats

    Wats Error 520

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    '08-11 at least added Gallagher to the core. How was the '12-15 mid range? I find it hard to believe that many teams had more than the 7 picks in top 36 Habs had over those 4 drafts. All they have to show for it: Galchenyujk(Domi). If we're going to use hindsight, '12 was amazing for goalies and defensemen (Habs ended up with 0 and wasted a high 2nd on goalie following year). '13 had several quality players taken just in the late 2nd/3rd round (Habs ended up with Lehkonen). Hard to dismiss it all as bad luck.

    17/18 is far from the slam dunk but I definitely feel better about '16-19 vs '12-15. I'd actually agree the prospect pool is decent now. Not nearly as good as it was under Gainey (where the franchise was both ranked highly by fans and analysts) but best in years.
     
  13. TooLegitToQuit

    TooLegitToQuit Loyal Habs Fan

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    Check out post 55 and 60. This is my research. Still have a few tweaks to work out here and there but it's rules applied equally to all teams. The trends from 16-19 draft years look encouraging. It's early yet but we probability working in our favor.

    Best Drafting Teams in the NHL
     
  14. ECWHSWI

    ECWHSWI bought a MB jersey

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    you keep watching them while I watch other stuff.

    and keep being angry, does you well it seems.
     
  15. PaulD

    PaulD Time for a new GM

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    Bergevin ticked all the boxes...... but who gives a **** because Molson was doing the ticking.

    Alzner ticked all all the boxes.........but who gives a ****s because Bergevin was doing the ticking.

    In other words who f#$&en cares about the boxes being ticked.......if the box tickers in both cases are are morons.

    So "mate" my examples were perfect.

    Ill spell it out better for you next time.
     
    Last edited: Dec 12, 2019
  16. Mike Towers

    Mike Towers Registered User

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    Al Murray in Tampa found some good players in those drafts.....Namestnikov,Kucherov,Palat,Point,Cirelli....and Martin Madden jr found some good players for Anaheim....Palmieri,Vatanen,Rakell,Gibson,Frederick Anderson,Theodore,Montour,Kase to name a few.
     
  17. waffledave

    waffledave waffledave, from hf

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    Whatever man, let's just keep Bergevin so Jean-Guy from middle of butt**** nowhere can watch his 2 press conferences per year en français.
     
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  18. TooLegitToQuit

    TooLegitToQuit Loyal Habs Fan

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    No doubt about it. Tampa and the Ducks have done well. Drafting power over a given range of time is also different though. But in terms of the last 12 years of drafting, I have the Ducks, Lightning, Sens, Caps as the 4 best that stand out. Habs are horrible from 08-15. 08-11 is to be expected based on draft power but the real disappointments are the 12 and 13 drafts. We appear to have great draft power in the wrong drafts. Lehkonen for example was the best guy in the 2nd round in the 13 draft and we had 3 picks in that round!

    I have other info and there is a thread about this on the main boards I can show you if you like. But here is some snap shots on the Habs, Ducks, and Lightning. But I'm not the type to cherry pick, There is a lot that went into evaluating fairly and applying the rules equally to all teams.

    Did you know that Tampa is the only team in the NHL to hit on a elite level player outside of the 2nd round in the last 12 years? Point

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
  19. Mike Towers

    Mike Towers Registered User

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    My brain hurts.
     
  20. Ozymandias

    Ozymandias #MolsonLimbo #[email protected] #FireBergevin

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    It's access. Bergevin seemingly gives more access to the French media. Call it comfort, but it is what it is. An English GM would feel more comfortable with the English media, giving them more access.
     
  21. TooLegitToQuit

    TooLegitToQuit Loyal Habs Fan

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    It's a lot to take in for sure and these are only snap shots. Review post 55 and 60 from the thread below when you got time. Some interesting results and it avoids any bias opinions. It's drafting results (Producing NHL players and the Production they have) but diluting it by drafting power and then multiplying it by draft hit score. The formulas are near the bottom or each sheet on post 55.

    I'll be updating it again next summer. I don't have live stat tracking so it's pointless to do it during the season. I have to include the goalies the next time I update it.

    Best Drafting Teams in the NHL
     
  22. Mike Towers

    Mike Towers Registered User

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    Point is not the only elite player,depending on what your idea of elite is.
     
  23. TooLegitToQuit

    TooLegitToQuit Loyal Habs Fan

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    I actually reviewed it again. There are 2 elite level ones in the 3rd round or later. Point and Gaudreau. Regardless, if you study the formula hard enough, you will notice the draft pick hits (Elite, Top 9F/Top 4D, Depth player) is factored in and it's set up to avoid player value arguments from fan to fan. The games played and points generated by actually playing NHL games have more weight applied within the overall formula.

    Aside from Point and Gaudreau, who are the elite level ones taken in the 3rd round or later?
     
  24. Mike Towers

    Mike Towers Registered User

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    Yes,i was going to mention Gaudreau....and i would put in Klingberg for the points he puts up for his position......and possibly Mark Stone.....and a few goalies.
     
  25. TooLegitToQuit

    TooLegitToQuit Loyal Habs Fan

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    In the grand scheme of things, it doesn't affect the overall final rankings. The points generated and games played have more weight applied to it. If you start to include Stone as elite, you then have to include Patch and it spirals. I've toyed with various different factors in the formula and I found that the better teams stayed at the top and the weaker teams stayed at the bottom with little to no movement. I would say it has 2 or 3 spots in ranking accuracy (+/-).

    The draft pick hit score is explained in that thread somewhere.

    At the end of the day, do the rankings surprise you from what you previously thought before you looked at it? :naughty:. Basically, my research confirms most peoples suspicions. At least it's not cherry picked examples like some try to use all the time

    Habs look good in draft power and results so far in the 16-19 range. Most games played though which proves we are premature with our prospects. Regardless, the trends look good but we will see if the results = draft power. It's very early
     
    Last edited: Dec 12, 2019

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