Divisional Semi-final - New Jersey Swamp Devils vs. Boston Bruins

Discussion in 'All Time Draft' started by BenchBrawl, Apr 3, 2019.

  1. BenchBrawl

    BenchBrawl joueur de hockey

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    New Jersey Swamp Devils

    Coach: Joel Quenneville

    Alex Delvecchio - Newsy Lalonde (C)- Helmuts Balderis
    Reg Noble - Bill Cowley - Maurice Richard (A)
    Bun Cook - Mickey MacKay - Ace Bailey
    Tony Leswick- Guy Carbonneau - Vic Stasiuk

    Duncan Keith - Earl Seibert
    Babe Siebert (A) - Harry Cameron
    Frank Patrick - Alex Pietrangelo

    Dominik Hasek
    Hap Holmes

    Spares: Russell Bowie (C), Bobby Bauer (RW), Todd Bertuzzi (LW/RW), Kevin Hatcher (D)

    PP1: Bill Cowley - Newsy Lalonde - Maurice Richard - Harry Cameron - Alex Delvecchio
    PP2: Bun Cook - Mickey MacKay - Helmuts Balderis - Duncan Keith - Earl Seibert

    PK1: Guy Carbonneau - Tony Leswick - Duncan Keith - Earl Seibert
    PK2: Mickey MacKay - Ace Bailey - Babe Siebert - Alex Pietrangelo

    Style: Attacking team with a defensive conscience. All 6 defensemen are capable of moving the puck up ice, secure in the knowledge that if they get caught, they have the best goalie ever at stopping odd-man rushes. This is helped by the fact that the Swamp Devils have a LH and RH shot playing together at all times - ES, SH, PP.



    vs.



    [​IMG]

    Coach: Toe Blake
    Captain: Ted Kennedy
    Alternates: Valeri Vasiliev, František Pospíšil

    Syd Howe --- Dale Hawerchuk --- Gordie Howe
    Paul Kariya --- Ted Kennedy (C) --- Alex Maltsev
    George Hay --- Vladimir Petrov --- Odie Cleghorn
    John Madden --- David Backes --- Eddie Oatman

    Valeri Vasiliev (A) --- Pierre Pilote
    Cyclone Taylor --- Sylvio Mantha
    František Pospíšil (A)--- Joe Hall

    Roy Worters
    Billy Smith

    Spares: Bobby Holik (C/LW), Vitaly Davydov (D), Patrick Sharp (F), Boris Mayorov (LW)

    PP1: Taylor - Pilote - Kariya - Maltsev - G.Howe
    PP2: Pospíšil - Hawerchuk - S.Howe - Petrov - Hay
    PK1: Vasiliev - Mantha - Kennedy - Madden
    PK2: Pospíšil - Pilote - Holik - Backes
     
  2. Dreakmur

    Dreakmur Registered User

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    This is a rough match-up. This was actually my biggest struggle in regular season rankings. I wasn’t sure who to put first.

    How does Nee Jersey plan to deal with Gordie Howe?

    How does Boston plan to get to Dominik Hasek?
     
  3. TheDevilMadeMe

    TheDevilMadeMe Registered User

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    I wrote almost this whole thing out days ago, then lost it before I could post it. Here goes again:

    Dealing with Gordie Howe:

    1. Tony Leswick
    , one of the great agitators of all-time will see some extra ice time on NJ's lines to troll Gordie Howe. Is Syd Howe tough enough to take the pressure off Gordie? Otherwise, I see Leswick, at minimum, goading Gordie into some coincidental penalties, and hopefully taking him a bit off his scoring game, as well. Leswick was awarded the Retro Selke by the book Ultimate Hockey for 1948-49 and there are numerous quotes in his profile calling him one of the best defensive forwards in the league.

    Leswick has some real life success against Howe:

    Joe Pelletier:

    The only player perhaps more dangerous to tick off (than Maurice Richard) was Gordie Howe - not only arguably the greatest player of all time, but perhaps the greatest fighter of all time too. Leswick fearlessly needled Mr. Hockey with great success. Like Richard, no one had as much success keeping Howe off of his game as Leswick did.
    Ultimate Hockey:

    It was in shadowing the league's best players, however, that Leswick earned his stripes... some say Adams traded for Leswick so his boy, Gordie Howe, would not have to put up with the little NY Ranger pest anymore.
    Leswick isn't totally inept offensively either -

    Points – 17th(1948), 17th(1950), 19th(1947)
    Goals – 6th(1947), 9th(1948), 17th(1950)
    Assists – 16th(1950)

    Points on his team (in a 6-team era): 1st (1947), 1stT (1950), 3rd (1948), 5th (1946), 5th (1949)

    Certainly nothing special by ATD standards, but he isn't going to totally kill a line's scoring ability if he sees a few shifts a night on other lines, with the express purpose of being a dick to Gordie Howe.

    2. Earl Seibert and Babe Siebert are two of the few historical defensemen big and strong enough to hold their own with Gordie Howe in the slot.

    Earl Seibert:

    "Earl Seibert was one of the biggest players in the league and the only player the feared Eddie Shore was himself afraid to fight for sheer strength and mean streak." - Lord Stanley's Cup

    "...big by the standards of any era, and if you’re inclined to take the word of some of his teammates and opponents, he may have been the toughest player of his era… from a toughness standpoint, the Seibert/Johnson twosome was most imposing in the NHL, a fact that Johnson often credited to Seibert’s reputation as a bruiser. Usually though, Seibert’s size was enough of a deterrent to ward off most aggressors" - 100 Rangers Greats

    "It's lucky he was a calm boy, because if he ever got mad, he'd have killed us all." - Eddie Shore

    Babe Siebert:

    "Siebert was equally well known for his rushing, his sheer physical strength and his relentless backchecking" - Legends of hockey

    "He was as strong as an ox, making him nearly impossible to stop." - Joe Pelletier

    "Considered exceptionally strong, making it difficult to stop him in his tracks, 'Babe' also had outstanding skating skills." - Legends of Hockey

    On the PK, Quenneville has the option to put together Siebert-Seibert for a physically imposing pair to keep Gordie Howe from dominating the slot.

    Boston's 2nd PK seems more of a finesse unit, so Keith-Pietrangelo should be able to hold their own.
     
  4. TheDevilMadeMe

    TheDevilMadeMe Registered User

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    Can Cyclone Taylor play up to his full potential on the blue line?

    Early in Taylor's professional career, he played coverpoint (the more or less the equivalent of a modern rushing defenseman) and he was great. HHOF-great. But probably not top 100 player of all-time great. After 1913, I believe that Taylor exclusively played either rover or center. And in the 7-man game, the rover usually played more similarly to the modern center than the actual center in the 7 man game. This was certainly the case for Taylor, who was known for leading the rush up ice and in-a-sense inventing modern playmaking.

    Cyclone Taylor gets drafted where he does, based almost entirely off of 5 seasons when he led the PCHA away in scoring, usually by large margins - all of them as a rover, when rovers played similarly to modern centers. Would Taylor have been able to do this if he had stayed at coverpoint/defense?
     
  5. Sturminator

    Sturminator I voted for Kodos

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    ugh...wow, the copy paste function failed me this time.
     
  6. Sturminator

    Sturminator I voted for Kodos

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    Anyhow, I think Boston's best bet is to bench Cleghorn and install Taylor full-time on Petrov's right wing, with a few shifts taken on defense (preserving his 17 ES minutes total). Slot in Davydov as the #6 D, with Pospisil bumped up to the 2nd pairing. Up Hay and Petrov's ES icetime (at the expense of 4th liners), and set the new 3rd line loose. A regular Hay - Petrov - Taylor line would be a game-changer, and I think Petrov and Taylor would play pretty well together stylistically.
     
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  7. ResilientBeast

    ResilientBeast ATD Draft Czar

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    Will drop in and make some points.

    Will consider your lineup idea @Sturminator

    If I recall Taylor did get put on the wing on occasion but I don't know how much I'd like to bend positions.
     
    Last edited: Apr 10, 2019
  8. TheDevilMadeMe

    TheDevilMadeMe Registered User

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    I mean, you would still be putting a player who had his best seasons playing a position that is semi-equivalent to a modern playmaking center at wing.

    That said, I get why Sturminator suggested putting him next to Petrov, as I can see a semi-correlation between Taylor's style and Kharlamov's (the Russians never held onto the puck like Taylor did, but that's partly a function different eras and coaching strategies).
     
    Last edited: Apr 13, 2019
  9. TheDevilMadeMe

    TheDevilMadeMe Registered User

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    Can't believe nobody noticed this before. I just noticed it now: :laugh:

    Not the first time I've seen someone in the ATD try to have a guy in street clothes kill penalties!

    Holik very rarely killed penalties in real life (my theory is he was too slow to do so), so replacing him with someone actually in the starting lineup probably helps you anyway.
     
  10. Dreakmur

    Dreakmur Registered User

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    I think both Gordie Howe and George Hay would make good PKers.
     
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  11. ResilientBeast

    ResilientBeast ATD Draft Czar

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    Sorry I just didn't have the energy this weekend to give this an honest try.

    So my reasoning for Taylor on defence as per my bio from this year.

    - Until the formation of the PCHA Taylor was largely a cover-point on every team he played for due to his speed
    - He was early on anointed the best player in hockey at this time already.
    - With scoring finishes of

    1907-08 - ECAHA - Ottawa Senators - 2nd in scoring as a defenceman
    1908-09 - ECHA - Ottawa Senators - 3rd in scoring as a defenceman
    1909-10 - NHA - Renfrew Creamery Kings - 2nd in scoring as a defenceman (Behind teammate Lester Patrick who was mostly a Rover)
    1910-11 - NHA - Renfrew Creamery Kings - 2nd (?) in scoring as defenceman (I can't find who was ahead of him)

    That is four seasons where he was widely considered the greatest hockey player currently playing.

    Now the bulk of the quotes I've found on physical and all around play come from Taylor's time out east. While he probably doesn't lead the league in scoring from the cover-point position he seems capable of playing a more well rounded game from there.

    I spent a great deal of time trying to figure out what the strategy was for the rover during the draft, best I could find are two articles, one written by Ian Fyfe and one dug up by tarheel

    Courtesy of @tarheelhockey - Saskatoon Phoenix 12/10/1919
    So based on this text, if this is accurate for the time in the PCHA rather confusingly Taylor would be backing up MacKay which goes against conventional wisdom

    Ian Fyfe's article "The Changing Role of the Rover" - I've lost the link but I saved a copy of the text to work

     
  12. ResilientBeast

    ResilientBeast ATD Draft Czar

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    I was trying to find a way as Sturm alluded to in the draft thread have Taylor play funky minutes at center and defence for matchup purposes. But got caught HOH list drafting Petrov and Hawerchuk neither of which can play wing. Which locked me into Taylor D "full time" that I wasn't super keen on until after I hit enter :laugh:
     
  13. ChiTownPhilly

    ChiTownPhilly Not Too Soft

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    Uh... I guess I'm a little late for this- but end-of-career Hawerchuk played frequently at RW for the Flyers, including playoff minutes, pace what one might read on H-R.

    You could argue that it's not optimized use for Hawerchuk, but it's nothing at all like he couldn't do it.
     

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