Discussion in 'Florida Panthers' started by EnforceTheLaus, Jul 1, 2019.
He isn’t producing offense. Still makes the odd blunder.
When did you say those this season? Sounds like fabrications.
Oh I never did. Why would I pick on something so irrelevant? We don’t need Matheson to produce offense. He’s improved dramatically with taking care of the puck and defensively. Which everyone here asked for. But then still complains about him. Just proves the bias I was talking about. Thanks for proving my point
Just out of curiosity, because I don’t know where to find them, but can you pull mathesons “metrics”? Like I’ll see the heat maps thrown around and talking about high danger chances and all these percentages. What do the analytics say about matheson just out of curiosity. I mean I go by the eye test but I’m still curious what they look like.
Thanks for proving my point.
You lose credibility every time you bring up whatever stats and analytics and then completely ignore Matheson's 2pts in 22 games, team leading minus-11, decreased ice time and demotion to the 3rd pairing and still tell everyone he's playing great hockey after returning from injury.
Not sure exactly what your looking for and I’m not sure where to look but shot metrics has him around 50% corsi. That’s with playing with pysyk who gets caved in and is the worst on the team by quite a bit at 43%. Boyle and brown at 45 and 46 % percent respectively . I don’t know which site to use for zone entries and exits but I know when Matheson was pried with stralman they were top 10 in entire league as a pair along with weegar and ekblad. Pysyk drags everyone single player he plays with thru the mud when it comes to a lot of the advanced stats.
He’s playing fine since returning from injury. And was excellent before. No one who plays with pysyk plays well. Yandle was a train wreck. The fact he’s keeping pysyk afloat is amazing and tells a lot. Again his point totals are irrelevant as we don’t need more offense from the back end. And his numbers will obviously climb as he won’t shoot 0% for the year. He kills penalties and doesn’t get pp time. The fact your picking points to trash a player that isn’t even used remotely in an offensive role once again proves your blatant bias. Laughable really
He's only played with Pysyk for what 2-3 games? Brown 2-3 games? He's played with Stralman most of the season and low and behold Stral's plus/minus took a major hit too and didn't score until paired with Weegs, so all indications suggest Math is the one who's been dragging whoever he plays with down since returning from injury at least. Lets not forget they were trying to make Ek-Math pairing work in preseason and that lasted what, 1-2 regular season games? That was a nightmare.
Actually I didn't say one bad thing about Math this season except when he was paired with Ek in the 1st couple games and after Math came back from injury, and I even said something like "terrific, of course Math has to get injured when he's been playing really well", but yeah, I'm bias.
Chart (the second tweet displayed):
Basically says Bob has been playing bad behind a bad defence. There are goalies with better results here behind worse or similar D: Crawford, Lundqvist, Lehner, Halak, Eliot, Brossoit, Georgiev (NYR). There are also a few goalies doing just as bad or worse behind a better D (Howard, Monty, Saros, Murray, Merzlikins, Dubnyk and Kinkaid).
Both need to seriously improve; D and the goaltending. That said, looking at Varlamov and Lehner on this chart (the two other options we considered) is just another thing making me wish we hadn't gone for the "biggest fish out there" in the offseason.
Thought we would go with the Bob/Bread combo...
But yeah, for as much as I love Bob... The reasonable bet may have been Lehner or Varlamov, for the dollars AND the performance !
Again, I didn't have him make any saves that wouldn't have been made last year.
He did make one really nice save with 7? Minutes left in the first where he saved a partial Breakaway off his head. That was pretty sweet.
I wish I would have made notes last night because I thought I had him make three really nice saves, I just can't remember them.
In the second?, he made multiple saves in a row giving up no rebounds. I think he has been doing that for some time now, but I get a lot of doubt and Flack on here saying he's not making no rebound saves.
I actually thought he played pretty decent in Washington, but the one so so goal that went off the top corner post and in that beat him high blocker, where he slammed his goal stick on the ice after, made me think this rest is more mental than anything. A reaction like that tells more of a story.
12.5 saves/21 games
0.60 saves not made last year/game
I had Bob making one save last night that I don't think would have been made last year. At about the halfway mark of the game he did the splits and absolutely robbed someone with a right pad save on an open net. I don't think Reimer could do the splits quite like that, and if Luo did the splits like that he would have been injured for months.
I also had Bob make 5 really good saves last night. A few were nice right pad saves, another one was another splits save, but wasn't quite the splits, so I feel like Reimer might have made that save. Again, he made countless no rebound saves throughout the game.
The one goal he let in, despite being screened, again was high blocker side. Bob happened to look around the players screening him the wrong way right when the shot went above his blocker. That is his Kryptonite so far this year. If I were Bob, I would start looking on my blocker side first before my glove side, since I'm struggling with those shots.
13 saves/22 games
0.59 saves not made last year/game
I thought this podcast from InGoal Magazine with Stephen Valiquette was really interesting (was brought up in an article from The Athletic on 10 biggest disappointments so far this season). They talk about his playing days but also his new analytics firm that focuses on goalie advanced stats. (InGoal Radio Podcast: Episode 44: Steve Valiquette on Apple Podcasts) He starts talking about his firm around the 45 minute mark. Bob comes up around the 60 minute mark.
The firm tracks way more than just the high danger shot areas and takes into account 34 different data points for every shot, including things like zone situation, sequence of plays, cross ice passes, angles, left/right shooter, splitting the ice into transition zones, all the stuff that doesn't get captured well in the GSAA stat. These are advanced stats evaluating goalies made by goalies who know what matters for a scoring chance.
The data is private and they work with teams so it's not available to the public, so unfortunately we don't get to see any of the data. But Vali mentions that based on their model, Panthers have the toughest environment for a starting goaltender. Islanders have the easiest. CBJ has the 2nd easiest. Coyotes 3rd easiest.
So Greiss and Kuemper may have amazing stats, both sv% and GSAA, but they play behind the best defense (also kind of tells you how even GSAA can be misleading). Korpisalo should have better stats and is underperforming. For Bob, like some of us have been trying to say, his publicly available stats are misleading and his play has been at least decent (aside from that 3-4 game stretch where we can all agree he sucked). But also there may be some adjustment period that Bob needed coming from one of the easiest environments to play in behind the CBJ defense to what is a different system and quality of defense with FLA.
Bob's play and stats have improved the past couple games, so I don't mean to re-open this debate again, but I thought it was worthwhile to share this here.
Thanks for posting this, I wish this data was public. But this sounds like the best way yet to actually rate a goalie's performance. Might I suggest posting this on the main board's Bob is a Bust thread?
So a secret stats should be trust on faith. I'm in!!! An unknown stats derived from an unknown model with unknown variables with unknown statistical significances proves I'm right, so it must be true!
That being said, if we were to believe this, then it might means that we overpaid a mediocre goalie that was propped up by a stellar defense. In which case, we're screwed.
Nah... I try to stay away from that place. It's crazy enough in here as it is.
Haha ok, you keep on using the flawed stats that tell your story. I forgot that you think all professional writers/reporters are hacks and shouldn't be believed, we should only trust in our resident hockey experts with their years of watching NHL hockey. Why should we bother listening to the people that have actually played and coached in the NHL. Ok...
And of course the takeaway couldn't be that good defense and good goaltending go hand in hand...nope. That's just crazy!
It would have been interesting to see how Lu/Reim would have performed under Q's system and Bob under Boog's system, because clearly there are differences in how we defend now vs last season, as well as individual improvements (Math being a dumpster fire last season vs much improved play this season, Weegs taking another step this year, Stral addition, upgraded defensive forwards like Noel/Boyle/Conns, better support from all forwards, ect).
Rick Tocchet got Jason Demers playing good D over in Arizona, just goes to show the right fit and cast can help anyone's game.
I did not have Bob make any saves against Tampa that wouldn't have been saved last year.
I feel like I've been saying this a lot lately, part of the reason for that is Panthers are playing better overall defense and not allowing crazy chances.
That being said, he did make a lot of saves last night, a bunch of them we're really good.
The one goal I do think though was weak. He let a big rebound on a long-distance shot go right to a player who scored. One bad shot out of, I don't know how many shots against last night?
I didn't read the GDT yet, but I feel like others got to agree with me that that first goal shouldn't have counted, it should have been a penalty. I was outraged watching that.
In my mind it was a 1-1 game and we went to overtime. Robbed of one point.
13 saves/23 games
0.57 saves not made last year/game
Bob played excellent again last night. Although, I didn't have him make any saved that wouldn't have been made last year. Possibly that tells me that the defensive structure is getting better? Though Weegs did have a brutal give away that led to a goal.
I thought he made two really good saves. One was on a partial Breakaway that he made the save with his right pad.
Another one was a good blocker save in traffic. I have noticed the last two or three games he has made really good blocker saves. Hopefully he is improving his play blocker side, which would possibly be why his numbers are improving. (.958 SV%, and two or fewer goals allowed in his last four games.)
13 saves/24 games
0.54 saves not made last year/game
bottom line, we did not need to bring Bobs, we should've invested the money in depth and D and we'd be a better team.
I had Bob making one save that I don't think would have been made last year.
It was a breakaway save in the first where he slid on his stomach and made as nice right pad save. I don't think are either Luo or Reimer would have made that save, due to quickness or powerful slide.
I don't think Reimer has the same power as Bob does for that move, and Lou had definitely lost his cross crease quickness.
As for really nice saves, I lost count around 5 for Bob, as I wasn't keeping track with pen and paper. He made 38 saves, and I feel like if he wasn't in net we could have easily been down by four or five heading into the Third.
Great to see him playing so well!
13.5 saves/25 games
0.54 saves not made last year/game
Since the 10 day reset, he's played 6 games.
He's 3-3-0, arguably could have been at least 4-2-0/3-2-1 with some help on offense.
10 goals allowed in those 6 games, (203 saves/213 shots against = .953 sv%)
GAA = 10 goals x 60 min / mins played (355 mins, pulled for late game tie a couple times) = 1.69
Let's keep this going Bob!
This is the Bob that we want! He's back on the case!
We may just have to deal with the fact that he is a slow starter and hope the team is strong enough to make up for it until he gets in his groove.
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