How many points will the 2019-20 CBJ have?

Discussion in 'Columbus Blue Jackets' started by Cyclones Rock, Aug 15, 2019.

?

How many points will the 2019-20 CBJ have?

Poll closed Sep 19, 2019.
  1. Under 80........Hello rebuild!

    9.9%
  2. 80-87........Welcome back the CBJ we used to know and love (sometimes)

    27.5%
  3. 88-93.........Miss them thar playoffs by a whisker

    29.7%
  4. 94-102......Keep that playoff engine going

    29.7%
  5. 103+........Bob who? Artemi what?

    3.3%
  1. CalBuckeyeRob

    CalBuckeyeRob Registered User

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    Korpisalo had a below .900 save percentage last season. He just isn't an average goalie. No reason not to let him confirm it this season, but I think the strategy needs to be splitting the starts between Korpisalo, Elvis and Veini and see if one of them emerges as a 2020-21 top option.
     
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  2. Toe Pick

    Toe Pick Registered User

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    So scoring by committee to total what was an average offense for a playoff team last year is turning the offense into a juggernaut? Talk about logical fallacy.

    And please share how to fix our goaltending this year?
     
    Last edited: Oct 8, 2019
  3. Viqsi

    Viqsi where we're going we won't need eyes to see

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    My point was strictly that he came in here going on and on and on about how the offense was horrible and needed to be much better, gave target numbers that would have put us in the top 5 or 10, and then when called out on just how many discrepancies there were between where we are vs. where he thinks we are and where we should be vs. what he thinks it'd take to get us there, he started blathering about the goaltending instead.

    * * *​
    Yes, because "average for a playoff team" means "among the best in the NHL" - top-8 or better. "Average for an NHL team" is a lower target.

    You're still trying to change the subject.
     
  4. Johansen2Foligno

    Johansen2Foligno CBJ Realest

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    Well, we know we will at least have two.
     
  5. Toe Pick

    Toe Pick Registered User

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    Did you even read my original post where I clearly stated:

    Then of course there is the goaltending. Need a lot more than just a career .906 save % out of Korpisalo.

    Still waiting for your goaltending fix, hon.
     
  6. Viqsi

    Viqsi where we're going we won't need eyes to see

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    Ah yes. One throwaway line in the middle of the equivalent of four or five paragraphs' worth of "OFFENSE OFFENSE SCORING SCORE OFFENSE". You came in here with absurd standards for what the offense has to be, mentioned the goaltending in passing, and then tried to simultaneously turn to it as justification for the absurd standard AND insist it was never absurd when the absurdity was pointed out.

    Or are you no longer insisting that we need what would be a Toronto-level offense to "have any shot to compete"? (Or is your standard "competing for a wild card spot" rather than "competing for the Cup"?)

    I swear, it's like people only ever look at the top five or six guys and then just kind of go blank on everyone else. Those other players do things, you know. Some of those things involve scoring. And on some teams, those guys score more than they do on other teams.

    Your logical fallacy is tu quoque
     
    Last edited: Oct 8, 2019
  7. majormajor

    majormajor Registered User

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    I think for now Korpisalo is far better than the other two goalies. Maybe Elvis will make his adjustments faster than I expect and he'll give Korpisalo some real competition in the earlier part of this year, I'm thinking it might take a few months (or years). I'll admit I have VV pigeonholed as Anton Forsberg, I'm not expecting much from him this year or in the future.

    If the Wings fizzle out this year, which Anthony Mantha might have a thing to say about, I'd really like us to target Jimmy Howard. He's the only veteran goalie I know of that doesn't have a brutal contract and can give us league average goaltending (Quick fails on both counts).
     
  8. majormajor

    majormajor Registered User

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    Nah, you can't blatantly move the goalposts like that. Along with needing all those forwards to score that much, you said we need more than a .906 sv %, with absolutely all of these conditions having to be met in order to compete for a playoff spot :

    Don't try and tell me that you meant .833. Maybe you lost track of how many different things you mentioned as part of the minimum, that's fine, it's complicated. Just enough with sliding around the goalposts.

    If you have all of your individual benchmarks met, you're probably looking at 270+ goals. It's maybe not a juggernaut but it's a top ten offense, i.e. far more than the minimum needed to compete for a playoff spot.

    Using the same chart from earlier in the thread, but upping the goals to 270, a .906 sv% gives us a goal differential that would have led the division last year (+32 was tops).

    Save PercentageGoals AgainstGoal Differential
    0.9220070
    0.915212.557.5
    0.9122545
    0.905237.532.5
    0.925020
    0.895262.57.5
    0.89275-5

    Granted this has shots against built into it (assumes 2500 shots against) and you might dispute my assumptions about that, and given your penchant for moving goalposts I suspect you might try it. I'll warn you in advance that we would need league worst shots against to have an even goal differential in this scenario.
     
  9. Toe Pick

    Toe Pick Registered User

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    Still waiting, hon.
     
  10. Viqsi

    Viqsi where we're going we won't need eyes to see

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    You're not going to get one, because I am not going to indulge your attempt to change the subject to deflect from an absurd premise.
     
  11. Toe Pick

    Toe Pick Registered User

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    Waiting.

    Edit: Hon.
     
    Last edited: Oct 8, 2019
  12. CalBuckeyeRob

    CalBuckeyeRob Registered User

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    Korpisalo has likely had enough game action over the last few years to get a good idea of what he can be, and that is not going to be a quality goalie. Playing the best option right now might make sense if you had a high scoring offense to make up for it. They don't. Now is the time to bite the bullet on young guys that need the reps and see if any of them show upside.
     
  13. CBJWennberg10

    CBJWennberg10 Dark Days Have Returned

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    Lots of hostility amongst friends on HFCBJ.
     
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  14. Toe Pick

    Toe Pick Registered User

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    Your post I'll respond to like an adult because you've actually spent some time on it versus that other dribble.

    So I have this clear on this moving the goalpost bit:

    You're saying I'm moving the goalpost when I post a .833% instead of a 909%. Okay, let's move that back to 909% -- now what? You're saying we can ice a playoff team with that?

    **oh, wait -- did I say playoffs? Or did I break the moving the goalpost rule again by not saying competitive? Please let me know as I'm admittedly getting confused by these goalpost rules.**

    Back on topic -- last I checked there was ONE team that made the playoffs last year with a 909% from their starter. That was Colorado with Varlamov. But here's the catch -- they had a top 10 offense. For me, I don't think we're a playoff team (oh crap, there I go again) with that number -- do you?

    As for the offense -- point taken that my numbers are above average and would likely be a top 10 offense. Here's some more numbers for you:

    13 of the 16 playoff teams last year were top 16 in offense. The three that missed were 9th (Montreal), 10th (Chicago), and 10th (Florida) in the final conference standings. Two of those (Chicago and Florida) were top 10 offenses.

    On the flip side -- 13 of the 16 playoff teams gave up the LEAST amount of goals. The three that missed were 9th (Arizona), 9th, (Montreal), and 10th (Minnesota) in their final conference standings. One of those (Arizona) was a top 10 defense.

    So you want to ride me about choice of words, moving goalposts, and cherry pick outliers -- have at it. I stand by that fact that in order to be competitive the standings and stats clearly show your best shot is to have an above average offense -- which is I what originally contended with scoring by committee -- and better goaltending than a 909 save% to even be in the playoff conversation (competitive) at the end of the year.

    I'll end it at that and give you the last response as I'm sure DSL is ready to lock this.
     
    Last edited: Oct 8, 2019
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  15. The Jones Zone

    The Jones Zone HFBoards Sponsor Sponsor

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    I said to shut this down yesterday

    Cancer thread
     
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  16. Viqsi

    Viqsi where we're going we won't need eyes to see

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    I recommend not holding your breath.
     
  17. EDM

    EDM Registered User

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    I just don't get all of this high anxiety at this point. As I said in another thread, this team is so young that no serious conclusions can be drawn after 3 games. For better or worse, we are probably going to have to wait until the beginning of the new year before we can make any worthwhile conclusions about what we should do personnel wise. And as the Blues showed last year, you can still make a significant play off run starting in January.
     
  18. Dema

    Dema Registered User

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    We got one real problem. Maybe two.

    A offense that is below average (because of our center depth)
    And a coach who doesnt do offense (when one is need more than ever)

    Defense will make up for average goaltending (Korpi have no idea what Elvis is), if the defense had someone to pass too. Fix the center problem and everything will look better.

    Just my opinion.
     
  19. Viqsi

    Viqsi where we're going we won't need eyes to see

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    For my part, my anxiety is coming from the fact that the goaltending has been much worse than I expected/hoped. It's easily controlled anxiety ("*****, shut up, it's only 3 games, calm the **** down and look at how well everyone else is doing" ;) ) but it's still there.
     
  20. thebus88

    thebus88 19/20 Columbus Blue Jackets: "It Is What It Is"

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    "goaltending"

    OR

    Merzlikins

    ??
     
  21. Byrral

    Byrral Registered User

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    goaltending.

    Hard to ignore Korpi's 3.44 GA and .851 SV% this year and career 2.90 and .906. He will be better as the season goes on but the eye test has seen enough of him to have an opinion that he's nothing but a serviceable goaltender. That doesn't mean he can't improve or be a successful goalie for this team. But he is what he is, average at best.

    This year his angles seem to be off. He doesn't have enough time to get to the other side of the net because he over commits to one side leaving wide open nets on the other side.
     
  22. Viqsi

    Viqsi where we're going we won't need eyes to see

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    Goaltending. Merzlikins and Korpisalo both. NHL-average goaltending would have given us the Buffalo game without ever having to go to OT.
     
    Last edited: Oct 9, 2019
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  23. majormajor

    majormajor Registered User

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    I'll dissent on this one. Those were high quality shots from a team that is sniping their way through the league (another 5 goals tonight). Korpi hasn't been bad, or good.
     
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  24. EspenK

    EspenK Registered User

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    Maybe all NHL goalies suck...you see some of the scores this season? Yikes.
     
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  25. majormajor

    majormajor Registered User

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    Unfortunately for us, John Gibson doesn't suck. Hopefully he gets the night off and we get Ryan Miller, who is good but at least beatable.
     

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