Kings Need Extra Picks in 2020!

Discussion in 'Los Angeles Kings' started by andys, Nov 9, 2019.

  1. andys

    andys Registered User

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    I imagine the Kings may be stuck with what they have...and that means the Quick,Kovalchuk,Carter contracts at least until the deadline. Blake had better work those phones and try to offload them even if that means taking on partial or all of their salaries. Martinez...Toffoli too because they have value should also be dealt in line with the vision of getting younger and cheaper...ditto for Lewis whose 2 Million could be spent on a player making entry level money playing the 4th line. Now if Blake can make all that happen and parlay them into extra picks in 2020 the Kings may turn this spiraling franchise around in quick order. Hopefully an extra first rounder can be had as well as extra 2nds and 3rds...This team needs RD-men and LWingers and when Kopitar is deemed too expensive or not wanting to be part of a youth movement then a numero uno centre...like to see the Kings draft the likes of Byfield,Drysdale,Schneider,Grans,Holtz and Raymond with Sanderson,Guhle and Kleven as possibilities too. Now 3 or 4 would fill the prescription well...couple the movement of players to the NHL from Ontario and the graduation of players from the Junior/College and European ranks may have the faithful singing or at least hopeful for better days after what looks like a pretty dreadful 2019-20 season!
     
  2. Statto

    Statto Registered User

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    Considering the guys you mention are mostly struggling on one of the 3 worst teams in the NHL I think expectations of trading then with decent returns are overly optimistic. If he can move them for a first and a couple of 2nds + he's going to be in the running for GM of the year. Toffoli at a stretch can maybe get a 1st but he needs to get better, much better. Martinez is playing horribly and only an injury crisis for a contender would see him net more than a 3rd. After that with the contract status of the other guys I'm not sure where the value is to any play-off side. Lewis has been dreadful, so who will want him.

    We cannot take on all of any players salary, there's a limit of retained salary (I think its 25%) and taking on a bad contract or two may be needed. We are not in a bind cap wise in the immediate future so its an option but I'd hate to have more deadwood blocking the younger players. I think realistically we are more likely going to have to wait until the 2021 deadline for Kovi to move and who knows when for Quick and Carter.
     
  3. Butch 19

    Butch 19 Go cart Mozart

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  4. Peter James Bond II

    Peter James Bond II #circleprayer4lafreniere

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    The only players on the Kings that could return a first round 2020 pick: Kopitar, Doughty, Turcotte, possibly Kaliyev and Bjornfot. That's it. No other single player is worth a 2020 first rounder.
    If you want a first round 2020 pick for, say Toffoli, it would be like Toffoli + JAD and you do not want to do that. Toffoli alone will not get a first round 2020 pick. Martinez may not even
    get a 2nd rounder. He's almost 33 and not playing well. Let's tank and get a shot at Lafreniere or Byfield..and if in the top 6, have shots at Raymond, Holtz, Perfetti, Drysdale...it MAY not
    be a bad idea to get the goalie, Askarov....if he shows all year that he's that good. Consider Cal Petersen is already 25. If the Kings are in the 6-10 range and Askarov is BPA, may be the best
    choice.

    What other single player alone, than these, are worth a 2020 1st rounder? (of course, Kopi and DD return more than 1 2020 first round pick)
    Kopitar, Doughty, Turcotte, possibly Kaliyev and Bjornfot. (No other single player on the Kings or in the system is worth a first round pick. Mikey Anderson actually may be, but don't think
    any GM would trade a first round pick for him....and of course, MAKES NO SENSE to trade Turcotte, Bjornfot, Kaliyev. I've just made a list of King players / in the system players
    worth a 2020 first round pick....the way things are going, Sean Walker could possibly be worth one, if he keeps rising.
     
  5. King'sPawn

    King'sPawn Enjoy the chaos

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    Kings should have held onto Kubalik for another year to trade him this season for a pick instead :sarcasm:
     
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  6. Scottkmlps

    Scottkmlps Registered User

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    I thought it was going to be a thread about needing more picks to trade picks for Kubalik.
     
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  7. Raccoon Jesus

    Raccoon Jesus #CONFUSE4HUGHES

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    We don't need firsts. If we stock a bunch of 7ths, we could land the next Kubalik!

    But I agree with @andys this time with respect to it's time to dump some of these guys even if it takes retention to do so.
     
  8. TruKingFan

    TruKingFan Two-Time Cup Winner

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  9. andys

    andys Registered User

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    Kubalik sits and then scores in his first game back eat caca boyz
     
  10. Legionnaire

    Legionnaire Help On The Way Sponsor

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  11. andys

    andys Registered User

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    hahahahaha
     
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  12. ru4reals

    ru4reals Registered User

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    Askarov is my choice if he's available after 6th.
     
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  13. andys

    andys Registered User

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    Why do the Kings need to draft another 'tender? We have Petersen about to assume the reins,Vallalta and Kehler in Fort Wayne-Ontario and the likes of Hrenak(St Cloud),Ingham(Kitchener)Parik(Spokane)available in the next year or two...so getting a 18 year old 'tender makes no sense...we have issues on defense especially RD...Bjornfot,Anderson and Clague will probably solve the problem on the port-side but the Starboard side almost bare...Walker is OK as a 5th D-man...Strand as a 7-8th possibly...Spence as a 6-7th...We need a bonafide star at RD not named Doughty not another goaltender... but if you set on another perhaps Mack Guzda of Owen Sound in round 2 or 3!
     
  14. ru4reals

    ru4reals Registered User

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    Because if 5 or 6 of the top prospects are off the boards you take the BEST PLAYER AVAILABLE and if Askarov is there he's the best player available. Look I don't disagree with what you're saying but a chance to get a potential franchise goalie like Askarov I'd take that chance. He's the best goalie prospect since Carey Price and if you get him you solidify your goalie issues for years to come. I'm loving what Petersen is doing and how some of our young Goalies are progressing but too many good young goalies is always a good problem to have. If we are in the top 5 yes I would love any of the forwards but if we drop out I'd no doubt take Askarov. Either way whomever we draft will help this organization for many years to come.
     
  15. DoktorJeep

    DoktorJeep Bring on the Re-Stockpile!

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    Can’t see BLuc taking a goalie with a top pick. It’ll be 3-5 years before the kid plays. They’ll be drafting for nhl readiness.
     
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  16. King'sPawn

    King'sPawn Enjoy the chaos

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    1. You don't draft for need.
    2. By the time Askarov is in the NHL and ready, Petersen will be getting a higher salary and will need a good backup
    3. While the pipeline is promising, there's still no guarantee for them.

    I'm naturally wary of taking a goalie high due to the volatility of the position, but writing off Askarov for "need" when he outdueled first round pick of last year, Spencer Knight, and achieving this already, at the age of 17:

    2018-2019
    Hlinka Memorial Bronze Medal
    U17 WHC All-Star Team
    U17 WHC Best GAA (1.40)
    U17 WHC Best SVS% (.948)
    U17 WHC Gold Medal
    U18 WJC All-Star Team
    U18 WJC Best Goaltender
    U18 WJC Silver Medal
    2019-2020
    Hlinka Gretzky Cup Gold Medal

    I don't know what to tell you.
     
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  17. Raccoon Jesus

    Raccoon Jesus #CONFUSE4HUGHES

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    I'm never a choose goalies high guy but Askarov if we're not in the top 5 is it. That's as sure thing as a goalie gets with a pick.

    They'd better not be.
     
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  18. Fishhead

    Fishhead Registered User

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    It should always be what you think the BPA is at the time, and if the draft is going wonky like last year, tie goes to the position in shorter supply still on the list.

    No need to ever take a goalie high, really. The game is so different in the NHL compared to juniors that only few of them ever adapt to the game at that level. You'll have guys like Fleury who will win cups, but that was more about Crosby/Malkin. I mean, when's the last time a first round goalie carried his team to the cup? It's been a bit.

    I did a little digging and here's some interesting numbers I found.

    Here's the first round goalies (plus games played):

    Martin Brodeur1266
    Roberto Luongo1044
    Grant Fuhr868
    Marc-Andre Fleury813
    Tom Barrasso777
    Olaf Kölzig719
    Cam Ward701
    Kari Lehtonen649
    Carey Price638
    Jean-Sebastien Giguere597
    Jocelyn Thibault586
    Martin Biron508
    Tuukka Rask505
    Devan Dubnyk501
    Jim Rutherford457
    Semyon Varlamov456
    Phil Myre439
    Bob Sauve420
    Cory Schneider402
    Trevor Kidd387
    Dan Cloutier351
    Marc Denis349
    Jonathan Bernier334
    Brian Boucher328
    Rick DiPietro318
    Michel Larocque312
    John Davidson301
    Michel Plasse298
    Gary Edwards286
    Jamie Storr219
    Andrei Vasilevski218
    Pascal Leclaire173
    Al Montoya169
    Jim Waite106
    Eric Fichaud95
    Mika Noronen71
    Dan Blackburn63
    Jason Muzzatti62
    Hannu Toivonen61
    Malcolm Subban48
    Jack Campbell45
    Jason Bacashihua38
    Terry Richardson20
    Gordie Laxton17
    Adam Munro17
    Leland Irving13
    Maxime Ouellet12
    Patrick Desrochers11
    Jean-Francois Damphousse6
    Marek Schwarz6
    So I bolded the 5 who have had significant impacts on winning the cup. I guess you could argue MAF, but his stats aren't close to impressive in the playoffs. He won the cup one year with a 3.04/.875, another with a 2.61/.908. He was solid for the 3rd with a 2.56/.924, but not a team carrier IMO. Even if you add him in it's a very short list. Just over 1 in 5 play 500 games. Sure, there's a couple that should make 500, like Vasilevskiy and Varlamov, but that's not a good hit rate.

    How many are impact guys on that list? I'd say 15 or less, that's 23%. Also, 77% of first rounders play over 100 games in the NHL. Only 53% of first round goalies do.

    That's just how I interpret the list, and it doesn't take into account that some of those goalies were surely BPA, but the numbers say it's far riskier to draft a netminder in the first round than a position player. There's been a few studies of career players, but they were a while ago as the players have to be old enough to retire to get good data. Goalies had the lowest average games played (320) of first rounders. Defense and forwards averaged 398 and 457 respectively. Older data, yeah, but the numbers are similar to the list above.
     
    Last edited: Nov 10, 2019
  19. andys

    andys Registered User

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    I wouldn't worry about Askarov...the Kings are in the Lafreniere,Byfield sweepstakes for certain! I'm just hoping LA can offload a bunch of players to get us another top 7-8 pick and garner Drysdale!!! It may take trading a Vilardi,Quick,Toffoli,Martinez... 3 of the 4 might do it...I wonder who could be in line come deadline time!
     
  20. Sol

    Sol Seductive God Of Thunder

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    Kings aren't going to offload those old coots. Seems to be the only organization in the NHL that isn't trying to get rid of its decrepit vets.
     
  21. kilowatt

    kilowatt Registered User

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    Kings will be taking whoever falls to four. The question is, will that be Drysdale, Raymond, or Byfield? Happy with any, though Drysdale certainly fills an organizational need at RD.

    I'm still not opposed to the DL plan of pairing a young puck mover with a stay at home veteran, though. With Doughty on the right, and guys like Bjornfot and Anderson on the left, we really only need a veteran RD2 and LD3 to get us where we need to be.

    Bjornfot - Doughty
    Anderson - Regehr
    Mitchell - Walker

    I don't know who the 2020 equivalents of Regehr and Mitchell are, but let's find them.
     
  22. Mats26

    Mats26 Youth Movement

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    We won't know how good those prospects will be until 2-3 years from now. Our problem now is that we don't have enough good bridge players, 24-27 age group that can transition this team towards the younger more promising core while the vets phase out. Walker maybe...but my bet next year is going out and sign\trade for those transitional NHL ready players. We are not ready to get vets on the D and make a run, that's more in the latter half of the rebuilding plan. It's almost the same with the forwards to be honest.
     
  23. Brodeur

    Brodeur Registered User

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    I know there's a general phobia with taking goalies in the first round, but making a list of first round goalies and pointing out the ones who didn't make it can be misleading. Make a list of defensemen taken outside the top 10 and it's easy to come up with a mediocre list as well.

    The 'when did a first round goalie win a Cup' argument also seems a little off: A) There aren't a ton of first round goalies in the league to begin with. B) Tuukka Rask came a couple bounces away from winning five months ago and would have presumably been the Conn Smythe.

    I get it, I wouldn't take a goalie if there's a possible 1st line forward / 1st pairing defenseman on the board. But once you get out of the top tier, I think it's a valid conversation. But I think people are too quick to say "never use a 1st rounder on a goalie" even if that first rounder is in the back half of the round.
     
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  24. andys

    andys Registered User

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    Saturday night Kubalik(5) scores and on Sunday an assists so far!
     

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