RD Moritz Seider - Jungadler Mannheim, DNL (2019, 6th, DET)

Discussion in 'NHL Draft - Prospects' started by jnk96, Jan 28, 2017.

  1. FissionFire

    FissionFire Registered User

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    I’m not sure why you’d blindly trust his eye for prospects. His record in Tampa with 1st round picks is pretty awful. He’s been outstanding in other rounds but the 1st has been pretty bad. Under Yzerman, the Lightning picked Brett Connolly (6th 2010), Vlad Namestnikov (27th 2011), Slater Koekkoek (10th 2012), Jon Drouin (3rd 2013), Tony DeAngelo (19th 2014), Brett Howden (27th 2016), and Cal Foote (14th 2017). Not exactly an impressive list of hits and all his Top 10 picks haven’t exactly lived up to expectations. I mean the very next pick after Connolly was Jeff Skinner. Namestnikov was taken just before Rickard Rackell. The pick right after Koekkoek was Filip Forsberg. The 6 picks after Droiun were Seth Jones, Elias Lindholm, Sean Monahan, Darnell Nurse, Rasmus Ristolainen, and Bo Horvat. DeAngelo was picked ahead of Nick Shmaltz, Kasperi Kapanen, and David Pasternak. Too soon to tell on Howden or Foote. Basically a lot of misses in the first round and especially in the Top 10. Yzerman is great, but I wouldn’t be super blindly confident in his 1st round drafting.
     
  2. redwings25

    redwings25 Registered User

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    stevey y drafted a tall fast mobile right shot d. and stevey thinks Seiders best asset is his brain. if hes right its exactly what Detroit needs and should be a top 4d in 2-3 years and #1d in 5 . hope he turns out similar to Pietrangelo but that's a lot to ask for. im going to trust the guy whos been the best gm in the league for the last few years until he proves me wrong.
     
  3. NickH8

    NickH8 Registered User

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    Connolly and Koekoek were bad picks, but every team has a few stinkers. Koekoek is the only actual bust in that list. Connolly had a 40 point year this year, so he's a serviceable player. Namestnikov is pretty good for 27th overall. Drouin wasn't the third best player in his draft but is still a solid top 6 guy. DeAngelo had a 30 point year and was really good for the Rangers. It's still too early to judge Howden and Foote. You can look at any teams record and find guys drafted after their picks who were better.
     
  4. Christien

    Christien Registered User

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    Somebody on YouTube made a highlight video of Seider during the scrimmage. For anyone interested:

     
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  5. bigfodee

    bigfodee Registered User

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    Name a GM whose picks all pan out.

    Go ahead and name another GM that you wanna set the bar with, and we'll use hindsight to poke holes in all his decisions.

    It is a foolish man's argument to take a draft pick in the 15-30 range and go "look at all these other guys drafted after him that turned out to be great!"

    What about late round steals? If Zetterberg went 210th, do you think the guys picking at 205-209th are idiots for ignoring his obvious talent?
     
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  6. FissionFire

    FissionFire Registered User

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    I’m not trying to crucify Yzerman for his picks. I just wanted to point out that blindly trusting ‘The Yzerplan’ when it comes to early picks has no basis in factual history. If you polled Bolts fans they’d agree that his 1st round drafting was probably the biggest chink in his armor. He’s fantastic with trades and seems to manage the cap well and make smart signings and his later round picks have been outstanding. Pointing out his one glaring weakness isn’t hindsight, it’s just pointing out reality. He’s 0/3 in Tampa getting elite/foundational players with top 10 picks. Hopefully Seider breaks that trend.
     
  7. martinez

    martinez Welcome home Captain!

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    When it comes to drafting he’s huge on trusting his scouts. So I’d use Detroit’s recent draft history over Tampa’s.
     
  8. bigfodee

    bigfodee Registered User

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    You're not pointing out a glaring weakness by saying someone makes bad choices. MOST draft choices down't pan out. Let me hit you over the head with this - the draft is basically a big gamble. You are choosing the SINGLE RISKIEST ASPECT OF being a GM and saying look how he only did average in a crap shoot. Just in part of the crap shoot too.

    No one is just blindly trusting Yzerman. They are just trusting him. You're outright calling his drafting awful. You're going "oh he took this guy 28th and the 29th pick was a great players and literally no GM has ever done that before so why are you trusting this guy utterly and completely when he's awful at drafting!!" Also nice job skipping over Vasilevskiy. After all its so common-place for a GM to pluck a Vezina-winning goaltender in the first round, no sense in even bringing up that home-run.

    Again, pick another GM and compare their picks. Pick any GM and we'll compare. I'm asking you to pick another GM. We'll see how similar their situations are and if your argument holds any water at all, it'll show everyone what a mistake they are making trusting Yzerman.
     
  9. newfy

    newfy Registered User

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    Hard to tell much from a highlight reel of a development camp scrimmage but its that time of year int he summer I guess lol. Some of those spin moves and stuff made him look fairly dynamic, he definitely looked really good out there
     
  10. FissionFire

    FissionFire Registered User

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    Tampa’s drafting/development has been better over the last 5-10 years than Detroit’s. I sure hope it improves under Yzerman.
     
  11. Hockeyisl1fe

    Hockeyisl1fe Registered User

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    Ah yes, those sites where Heiskanen was ranked 15-30 all season long despite playing +20mins a night in all situations. If they didnt watch a one ****ing minute (Im absolutely 100% certain of this btw, his rankings were based off of international play only) of a top prospect dman in the FEL play, they certainly didnt watch Seider play in the DEL either.
     
  12. izlez

    izlez Registered User

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    I know it's just a scrimmage, and against other kids, but I love the IQ and patience he shows in this. I'm not going to go crazy here, but I'll say it nudges the door open towards me being a big fan of his.
     
  13. Jacob

    Jacob as seen on TV

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    Thrill as he reverses to his D partner!
     
  14. Realgud

    Realgud Generational locker room presence

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    I ****ing love Seider, I was over the moon when the Wings drafted him. I wanted him or Boldy. Both are smart, serious, respectful and underrated. I hope I don't end up being wrong but damn, when I see them in interviews, they seem like the kind of players who just can't fail.
     
  15. newfy

    newfy Registered User

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    Yeah I lean this way as well. I'm sure more people got there eyes on Heiskanen in his draft year than Seider though. If Seider played in the WJC instead of the second tier, and could be compared to other draft prospects there I think some of these sites would've seen him more obviously and evaluated him. But likeI said, Pronman is one of the better prospect guys and he hasnt even seen Stutzle once who is a huge, high end prospect for next draft who plays in Mannheim. How many times do you think he watched Seider? Or how many times do you think he saw him live?

    Now how many times do these even lower tier publications watch him? Especially when you consider he missed a good chunk hurt and really developed and got better as the season went on. If they watched him in the first half of the season or even just in the World juior B tourney, they dont have a gauge on his game.

    Now with that being said, neither do I so he could turn out bad. But I dont think people should be saying too much either way on this pick for a little while. No one has hardly watched him play and the wing brass saw him play a tonne. They know a lot more about him than anyone on here or that publishes draft rankings for a website
     
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  16. pgfan66

    pgfan66 Registered User

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    I don’t know about Heiskanen, but at least FC had a German scout who’s now with HP who’s been watching Seider since 2016-17.



    It’s really not like they’ve never seen him play. FC also had him in the first round in their preliminary rankings.

    I guess we can all trust who we want, but I certainly trust a scouting service that I know has had eyes on Seider for a long time. Much more so than a guy like Pronman OR Button or Wheeler who have no support and only watch video and international tournaments (at least when it comes to Europe).
     
  17. izlez

    izlez Registered User

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    He also put together this one.


    Again, nothing overly exciting, but considering video is so scarce it's something. Again, I like how it shows off his hockey IQ. It's a slower paced scrimmage but seems like he'd reading the play well and just seeing things other people don't
     
  18. VictorLustig

    VictorLustig Registered User

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    FC also got plenty of players wrong in their preliminary rankings. Everyone will.

    I do think rankings are generally way less accurate when it comes to Europeans compared to NA players. Especially this year for some reason. Basically all European prospects in the 1st round went higher than expected. It's a very, very difficult task comparing a player from say the SHL to someone playing junior hockey. The easy way to solve that is just to look at someone else's ranking and copy it which forms a "consensus" that really doesn't exist among NHL teams.
     
    Last edited: Jul 10, 2019
  19. WingsMJN2965

    WingsMJN2965 Registered User

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  20. LarKing

    LarKing Registered User

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    AHL please
     
  21. Realgud

    Realgud Generational locker room presence

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    I hope he goes back to Mannheim and play with Stützle and then the Wings draft Stützle next year.
     
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  22. ElLeetch

    ElLeetch Registered User

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    For the players i am familiar with on the Rangers:

    Namestnikov,
    for #27 OA, is a +30-point player. decent value for one of the last picks in the 1st. Thats exceeds the slot value https://assets3.sportsnet.ca/wp-con...net.ca/wp-content/uploads/2015/02/chart22.jpg

    DeAngelo just had a solid season at age 23, the first full season of his career, and put up 0.5ppg as a defensemen. Again. that exceeds slot value (19th)and he looks to still be improving.

    Howden, a 21 year old true rookie, put up 23 points on a bad lotto team. He is already met slot value (27th), and i'm sure his next season will be an improvement.
     
  23. FireBird71

    FireBird71 Registered User

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    Nope
     
  24. Realgud

    Realgud Generational locker room presence

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    Why not?
     
  25. FireBird71

    FireBird71 Registered User

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