RD Moritz Seider - Jungadler Mannheim, DNL (2019, 6th, DET)

Discussion in 'NHL Draft - Prospects' started by jnk96, Jan 28, 2017.

  1. HisNoodliness

    HisNoodliness Seider's a big reach? He does have a 6'8 wingspan

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    That's the dream, I hope he makes it a reality.
     
  2. Ratatoskr

    Ratatoskr Registered User

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    I also think the AHL might be the best step to take. Let him get used to NA ice. Also, in Grand Rapids you can exert some influence over how he is used. His coach in Mannheim OTOH has zero obligations to the Wings. His only interest is winning hockey games. That's what his job depends on. And if he figures that means giving ice time and special team duties to his veteran d-men over Seider, that's what he will do.
     
  3. NuxFan09

    NuxFan09 Registered User

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    I don't know if this was already mentioned/asked about recently but how much exposure does Seider have to the North American ice? That's always an interesting factor when deciding where a Euro prospect should play: do you want him acclimating to the NA ice or is he better off developing his game in Europe and working on figuring out the smaller ice later?
     
  4. ijuka

    ijuka Registered User

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    Well, from what I've seen, euro prospects have had more success when staying in Europe for longer and only moving to NA when they're close to NHL ready. However, there's such a small sample size for German players that it's tough to say in that case specifically. Draisaitl certainly did fine going to NA early.
     
  5. Maverick41

    Maverick41 Registered User Sponsor

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    It is always difficult to predict because every player is different.
    Just looking back at the last notable (or somewhat notable) defensemen from Germany, these are the routes they took:

    Christian Ehrhoff - 862 NHL GP - 120 AHL GP (0 before his first NHL game) - 314 DEL GP (181 before his first NHL game)
    Ehrhoff was drafted as an overager out of Germany in the 3rd round and had no previous North America experience. Was 21 years old when he made the jump to NA.

    Korbinian Holzer - 162 NHL GP - 232 AHL GP (8 before his first NHL game) - 157 DEL GP (157 before his first NHL game)
    Holzer was drafted out of Germany in the 4th round and had no previous North America experience. Was 22 years old when he made the jump to NA.

    Christoph Schubert - 346 NHL GP - 231 AHL GP (231 before his first NHL game) - 377 DEL GP (124 before his first NHL game)
    Schubert was drafted as an overager out of Germany in the 4th round and had no previous North America experience. Was 20 years old when he made the jump to NA.

    Dennis Seidenberg - 928 NHL GP - 158 AHL GP (0 before his first NHL game) - 159 DEL GP (133 before his first NHL game)
    Seidenberg was drafted as a double overager out of Germany in the 6th round and had played a season of Midget hockey in the year he was first eligible for the draft. Was 21 years old when he made the jump to NA.

    Alexander Sulzer - 131 NHL GP - 162 AHL GP (100 before his first NHL game) - 451 DEL GP (232 before his first NHL game)
    Sulzer was drafted as an overager out of Germany in the 3rd round and had no previous North America experience. Was 23 years old when he made the jump to NA.

    Seider is more talented than any of them and ways ahead in his development compared to where these guys were at the same age.

    I don't know which would be the best way to go with him. I guess it depends on what the Wings see from him in camp. They should be able to gauge how comfortable he is on the smaller ice surface. Given his overall maturity I doubt that being away from home in a new country will be an issue for him, but you never know for sure.
     
  6. MarkusNaslund19

    MarkusNaslund19 Registered User

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    This is a good post. I can tell effort was put in and I learned something. Cheers, mate.
     
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  7. GoBoltz56

    GoBoltz56 Athanasiou Later

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    Can anyone that has seen him play comment on his shot? Namely his slapper/one timer? I don't believe any of his highlights show him actually shooting the puck besides his wrist shot goal in the WC's against Britain.
     
  8. Albatros

    Albatros Registered User

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    You're right in that he usually wrists it also from the blueline, it's not my impression that he would have a particularly good slapshot as of now.
     
  9. MBH

    MBH Registered User

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    Particularly in the top 10.
     
  10. WingsMJN2965

    WingsMJN2965 Registered User

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    Only one game but I really liked him so far.

    He ate a dirty, blindside hit from Dach early in the 2nd and proceeded to take every opportunity he could to put Dach on his ass the rest of the game. Seider is really strong on his skates.

    He jumped up into the offense quite a bit. That may be something that can bite him in the ass, but it didn't here. He never got caught in the offensive zone.

    His passing is really good, and he put on a clinic on the PP. I think I only saw one pass the entire night that didn't hit its target.

    Only thing I'd question is that he seems to sometimes tag team guys on the defensive end. One particular rush I saw guys coming in and he tag teamed the carrier, who Regula already had covered. Maybe he saw that the other guys were already covered. It's tough to say as there were no replays.
     
  11. newfy

    newfy Registered User

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    Definitely a dominant game out there from Seider and loved the mean streak. He buried Dach 2 or 3 times after that. I dont know the rush youre talking about on the double team but thats pretty standard stuff in high level sports. The wings likely had numbers back so he just doubled the puck carrier. Definitely not a negative to take away from the game.

    Its one game in the middle of summer but he looked like he had every tool to be a number one dman tonight. Not a bad thing you could say about him out there tonight. He played much more physical and offensive minded than I thought he would. But scouts were saying he played differently with guys his age than against the men in germany
     
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  12. WingsMJN2965

    WingsMJN2965 Registered User

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    You could definitely tell he's played against men. Dach is just as big as him but he stood him up every time. He's really strong on his skates.

    All in all, I still don't want to see him in the NHL yet. Let him develop offensively.
     
  13. MBH

    MBH Registered User

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    There is absolutely nothing special about his offensive game at this point.
    Passing is average. Shooting is nothing special.
    He's huge. He skates. He's smart.

    That's it. That could be enough to make him a solid 2nd pairing defenseman.
     
  14. decaguard

    decaguard Registered User

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    when your that big with those soft of hands and the height to get great whip out of the graphite theres no use working the slapper because the wrister gets there just as quickly without telegraphing the shot . hes a very smart player thats always looking to sneak wristers through the tight areas = higher percentage shots than inaccurate slappers
     
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  15. MTU hockey

    MTU hockey Registered User

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    Looks like someones still ******** that Yzerman "reached". I thought he looked pretty good considering he was one of the most noticeable players on the ice and he's only 18 years old. BTW who pisses in your cereal every morning?
     
  16. MBH

    MBH Registered User

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    Whether or not Seider is worth 6th overall is beside the point.
    He's still a universal first-round pick on every list.
    And a first round pick - especially a 6'6 one - should look pretty good in this tournament.
     
  17. ijuka

    ijuka Registered User

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    I liked some of his offensive play at world champs.
     
  18. Anaheim4ever

    Anaheim4ever Registered User

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    This sounds like Seider is a bit like Hampus Lindholm, very very smart guy who gets shots thru traffic. Dmen like that can get double digits in goals in the NHL because of smarts.
     
  19. decaguard

    decaguard Registered User

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    thats him . an extremely aware player thats checking off options as quickly as anybody while seeing far into the future . besides great hockey mind has very soft hands ands a very coordinated skater . i put the formula together of size + skating + smarts + hands + as a great additional bonus a temper that makes him a spirited competitor and i wont be surprised at all if he becomes a perrenial allstar . my favorite redwing prospect since datsyuk .
     
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  20. Al from New Jersey

    Al from New Jersey Registered User

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    Sounds like the perfect prospect.

    How did he drop to 6th
     
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  21. decaguard

    decaguard Registered User

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    shocking . a smart ass post to match a smart ass avatar pic
     
  22. nbwingsfan

    nbwingsfan Registered User

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    You seem to really dislike the Wings and I’m not sure why.
     
  23. MC2D

    MC2D Registered User

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    The tallest I've seen him listed is 6'4, with most sites having him at 6'3 am I missing something?
     
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  24. TheMule93

    TheMule93 On a mule rides the swindler

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    Wish we could get some people who aren't the usual massive homers commenting him so we could get some meaningful analysis here
     
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  25. Maverick41

    Maverick41 Registered User Sponsor

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    Since I have watched Seider now in various different situations I will try my hand at some sort of analysis. However the sample sizes for some of the situations are very small so take this for what it is.

    DNL (Germany's top junior league):
    I have watched maybe a dozen games of him in this league in the 16/17 and 17/18 seasons. Seider was rarely challanged defensively playing for the best junior program in the country and facing mostly inferior competition. He showed quite a bit of offense at this level even as one of the youngest players, and his superior skill in almost every category allowed him to do that without sacrificing too much on the defensive side.

    DEL (Germany's top pro league):
    The biggest sample size for me. He played a total of 43 games last season (regular season and playoffs) and I watched about 30-35 of those. Seider showed much less offense and put a clear emphasis on his defensive responsibilities, especially at the start of the season. As the season went on he would more regularly pick his spots to join the rush and initiate offense, but throughout he was very conscious about not taking huge risks when he did this. Overall he played in a well structured defensive system and did his part to strengthen that system admirably. He barely made any mistakes on the defensive side and in the rare instances when he did make a mistake, the system and his teammates helped to cover for him.

    German U20 National Team:
    Seider played 12 games for the U20 team (5 of them at the U20 Div. 1a World Juniors). I'll keep this short. I only watched 4 of those games, but from those games my observations were basically the same as I had from watching him in the DNL in the previous two seasons.

    German National Team:
    Seider played 6 games for the national team (5 of them at the World Championships) and I watched 5 and 1 period of those. Even over the small span of 6 games that was interrupted by an injury, you could see Seider progress as he got more comfortable with his teammates and the system he was playing in, and it was impressive that he showed more offense here against mostly stronger opposition than he did in the DEL. But just like he did in the DEL he picked his spots well to minimize the risk when he joined the rush or pinched along the boards. And also like in the DEL he played in fairly well structured defensive system that complimented his own defensive game very well.

    Detroit Red Wings prospect team at Traverse City:
    It has only been one game, but it was evident, that Seider put a much bigger emphasis on his offensive game and did so quite well considering that this team can hardly be expected to have a lot of chemistry at this point. That, to me, seemed to show at times on the defensive end, where I saw Seider make a few, mostly small, mistakes, that I was not used to seeing from him. It was really nothing glaring and I believe they can mostly be attributed to playing on a new team in a new system with new teammates. Another contributing factor was probably his ice time. Playing against men in the DEL and on the national team his ice time was limited. Playing as much as he did last night, it is not too surprising that this increased the odds of him making a mistake or two, not only just because of the increased ice time, but also because of the increased responsibility. All things considered I think he handled things very well and played a good (not great) game by the standard I have come to expect from him (which is pretty high).

    One additional observation through all this is that I have seen him play both on the left side and on the right side and at time he even changed his side (or his coaches did) during a game. I like him better on the right side, but he handles play on the left side well enough.
     

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