Realistically, would a player like Brad Marchand get in the HHOF?

Discussion in 'The History of Hockey' started by Passchendaele, Nov 30, 2019.

  1. Dennis Bonvie

    Dennis Bonvie Registered User

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    Even as a Bruins fan, I never thought I'd see the day Marchand played for Team Canada.

    Too much career left to really say if he gets in. What if he takes out a McDavid or McKinnon with a bad hit?
     
  2. DannyGallivan

    DannyGallivan Your world frightens and confuses me

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    How is this even relevant, unless you're saying that voters will let personal bias get in the way of their votes. I think because he's not big on the individual hardware scene, he needs to accumulate more top 10 and top 5 scoring finishes to get consideration.
     
  3. MXD

    MXD Original #4

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    They're actually polar opposites on a few things :
    - Alfredsson's case is heavily reliant on being the face of a franchise that accomplished absolutely nothing before he joined them; Brad Marchand plays for the Boston Bruins
    - Everyboys knows Marchand is a Dbag, a status Marchand seems to thrive in; meanwhile, Alfredsson is one of the lowest-key Dbag of low-key Dbags, which meant it's not something that will ever be held against him.

    I don't think Marchand can be kept out of the HHOF if he's continuing like this. At face value, his best three seasons are better than Alfredsson's best three seasons, and he's well on his way to add a fourth. He's gonna have to add games and healthy seasons (which not a total given, considering Marchand might turn 32 during the playoffs, should be Bruins are still in contention in the second round), however, because he's not a guy that will go with a borderline resume.
     
    Last edited: Dec 3, 2019
  4. KoozNetsOff 92

    KoozNetsOff 92 Hala Madrid

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    Alfredsson: 1x 2nd AST, 1x top 10 hart voting, 3x top 10 in goals (9,9,9), 3x top 10 in pts (4,7,9)

    Marchand: 1x 1st AST, 1x 2nd AST, 2x top 10 hart voting, 2x top 10 in goals (4,6), 2x top 10 in pts (5,5).

    This is not including the current season where Marchand is 4th in goals and 3rd in pts, well on pace for top 10 finishes in both, most likely another AST and top 10 hart finish too. Marchand has the edge in the regular season, they are similar playoff performers but Marchand has a cup. Definitely ahead of Alfredsson imo.
     
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  5. psycat

    psycat Registered User

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    Eh those are close numbers, Alfredsson however got over 1100 pts compared to 600. It's just a matter of a full consistent career vs a bunch of great years. And it's not like Marchand peaked clearly higher. In time I suspect they will end up quite close but at this point it's clearly Alfie.
     
  6. The Macho Man

    The Macho Man Lusty Bodychecker

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    TBF RW is deeper than LW (especially now). Who are the LWers of note right now? Marchand, Hall, Ovi, and Panarin? During Alfredsson's peak he was going up against Jagr, MSL, Iginla, and just generally a deeper bench of talent in the position.
     
  7. Roshi

    Roshi Registered User

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    Hmm. Interesting one..

    I hate Marchand as much as the next person, but my initial reaction was "of course he has a HOF case, the guy has won it all". Stanley Cup, World Cup, Skoda Cup, U20. All while having few 100 point seasons and being one of the backbones of his teams. Tied up for the most points in playoffs last year on a run that was very close handing him his second cup. Sounds like a lock to HF?

    Then you look his stats closer and it isnt actually all that sure. He doesnt really have the longevity just yet. And he has no personal hardware at all. Adding all the "other stuff" to that.. Winning with Team Canada gives him some edge over all the antics he has pulled though.

    His HOF-case will be determined later, I guess! Id give it a 50/50 right now.
     
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  8. The Macho Man

    The Macho Man Lusty Bodychecker

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    Oh I don't think he's there yet at all. He really only has what - three seasons as an "elite" player? But if he can put together a couple of more elite seasons, with a few more good ones, I think he'll have an argument.

    My issue is I don't think him being... himself will be a detriment. If anything I think it will break voters in his favor if he's borderline.
     
  9. scott clam

    scott clam Registered User

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    Marchand is underrated(still) so Hart Trophy voting only tells you so much about him.
     
  10. Big Phil

    Big Phil Registered User

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    5th, 7th and 11th is still pretty good so far at 31 years of age. Expect to see more numbers like that if his career continues. He is a rare player in the case that most HHOFers you figure by the time they are his age are well on their way, if not already, HHOFers.
     
  11. Thenameless

    Thenameless Registered User

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    I would have said no a few years ago, but he's certainly starting to make a decent case for himself now.

    He was a good player on a Stanley Cup winning team. Check.
    He's starting to put together some seasons with exceptional offensive numbers. Check.
    He holds his own defensively. Check.

    And, more importantly since it is a Hall of Fame, he is famous (or at least infamous) for his antics as an agitator. Whether you like that stuff or not (I don't), he is memorable.
     
  12. scott clam

    scott clam Registered User

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    For several stretches over the last 3 years Brad Marchand has been the most dangerous scorer in the national hockey league
     
  13. Moose Head

    Moose Head Registered User

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    As of now, I don’t see his overall resume being better than a similar player in Ken Linesman. That said he has peaked higher and he’s still building on that resume, so imo in the end he might have a really great case.

    pS I think I’m the only habs fan on the planet that really likes Marchand.
     
  14. The Macho Man

    The Macho Man Lusty Bodychecker

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    Did Linesman ever finish even top 10 in scoring? Odd comparable other than being rats. Marchand has a *much* stronger resume.

    No All-Star noms/consideration, no selke/Hart consideration, no high scoring finishes. Hell - he never topped 100 points in a *much* higher scoring environment, while Marchand has. The only thing they have in common is their ability to make people want to punch them in the face.
     
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  15. Moose Head

    Moose Head Registered User

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    Exactly what did you not understand about ‘peaked higher’, the part you chose to not highlight. Linesman had more quality seasons. Marchand peaked higher. That makes them more or less even. The peak certainly doesn’t put Marchand well ahead of a player like linesman. At best he’s like a Pete Mahovlich, some good to very good years, with a great 2-3 year peak.

    Marchand needs more than that to get to the hall. He might well do it. But he needs more.
     
  16. The Macho Man

    The Macho Man Lusty Bodychecker

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    That's not "peaked higher". That puts him in an entire different realm of player.

    It's a bad comparison. So is the Mahovlich comparison. Make a better one.
     
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  17. seventieslord

    seventieslord Student Of The Game

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    Mahovlich's "peak" came from centering Guy Lafleur. Marchand's peak is much more his own doing, plus he's a better all-around player.

    I think if you look at Linseman's quality seasons on an era adjusted basis you might find there's not really much more there, than there is for Marchand.

    Eliminate this season and the past three, and marchand's best adjusted points are 69, 69, 62 and 59. Linseman's were 67, 67, 64 and 62.

    Beyond the 59s, there's a dropoff for both players. If we call 59 or higher a "quality"season, then Linseman's got seven and marchand's working on his eighth. (With the main difference being that his four best are worlds better than Linseman's).

    So I'd have to disagree with you that Linseman's got more quality seasons as of right now.
     
  18. Mike Farkas

    Mike Farkas Grace Personified

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    I don't know the numbers. But at a pass this underrates Mahovlich and overrates Marshy for me...

    M was a gifted individual unto himself. Marshy has skill, no question, but he's - crazily (as I undercut him) the glue guy/third wheel on his line...

    This is also not a response to the thread at large...
     
  19. Moose Head

    Moose Head Registered User

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    I’ll stick by my comparisons thank you
     
  20. Big Phil

    Big Phil Registered User

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    I would have definitely said he is on a collision course for a Ken Linseman career. Nothing wrong with that, both were rats, seemed to play well during important moments, someone you wanted on your team, someone who could get you 70 points a year (50 or maybe 60 for Marchand). It fit. You don't put Linseman in the HHOF, but like Tikkanen, you at least look at his career and it is more impressive than you remember. But Marchand just exploded the last few years and right now I don't know whose career he resembles at the moment.
     
  21. Moose Head

    Moose Head Registered User

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    outside of Marchands big years, I see him more as a complimentary player on contenders, while I saw linesman as one of his teams top 1 or 2 forwards (outside the Oiler years) on similarly caliber teams. Just saying the difference isn’t outlandish and my main point is Marchand needs to do more. I think he can.
     
  22. The Macho Man

    The Macho Man Lusty Bodychecker

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    Yeah you don't see many players breaking out at 28-30. Peaking? It happens, but generally it's not incongruous with their prior career.

    Maybe MSL? Absent the face-licking, nut tapping, and low-bridging, they are not completely dissimilar in the offensive zone (Marchand better defensively by a solid margin though).
     
  23. seventieslord

    seventieslord Student Of The Game

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    Yeah, I don't know about calling Marchand the third wheel on his line. I can't think of any other time a third wheel outscored his even strength linemates by 14.5% and 40% per game, over a four-season period. Especially from the wing. This means a lot more goals are going in without a point from Pastrnak or Bergeron, than without a point for Marchand.

    I can only think of one famous "third wheel" who outscored his superior wingers (almost certainly just because he was the center) - and that's Vladimir Petrov.

    I know you aren't saying he's a scrub, but he's incredibly talented. He scares me every time he has the puck. He is not your standard north-south winger at all; he buzzes around the whole zone creatively, making things happen. Sure, one can say Bergeron is better because he is an otherwordly defensive player and because he creates a lot of chances with his defensive zone work that doesn't show up on the scoresheet, but Pastrnak hasn't outscored Marchand long-term, hasn't distinguished himself in any other areas, and really only scares me when Marchand makes a fast cross-ice pass to him.
     
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  24. The Macho Man

    The Macho Man Lusty Bodychecker

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    Marchand has a Jagr-esque ass. Dude just doesn't get knocked off the puck.

    Yeah - he certainly plays with great players but he's an elite talent on his own. I don't think he has an HHOF resume *yet*, but I would put my money on him getting there, because I think he has the right combination of skills to age well.

    Edit: He's a guy that I hated for years but sometime over the past two years I just gave up - he's too fun to watch to hate. He really is "tune in and watch" quality of player, and on the short list of guys I will watch outside of my own team nowadays (time isn't what it once was where I could watch 12 games a week).
     
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  25. vadim sharifijanov

    vadim sharifijanov ugh

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    very odd career arc. maybe rick tocchet through year nine would be the best comparison?

    year one: below the radar energy guy/pest, decently low in the lineup on a deep team in the regular season, both make the finals after moving up in the lineup but neither on the go-to scoring line (tocchet with sutter/carson behind poulin's line, marchand with bergeron/recchi behind krejci's line). marchand had a hell of a finals and won of course, while tocchet was much quieter and the flyers lost in 5.

    year two: improves, gains more responsibility, nothing spectacular for tocchet but marchand establishes himself as a 25 goal/55 point scorer

    year three: breakthrough years and return to the finals, marchand leads the bruins in scoring for the first time in the regular season, tocchet breaks through as a 10 goal/20 point guy in the playoffs

    year four: tocchet becomes a point/game player, marchand stays at the 25/55 level he'd established in year two

    year five: marchand stagnates, tocchet becomes a scoring star, hitting 45 goals (11th) and 86 points in only 66 games

    year six: marchand's turn to make a huge offensive jump, hitting 37 goals (6th), tocchet hits 96 points (15th)

    year seven: tocchet stays at his level, scoring 40 again, marchand makes another leap, hitting 39 goals (4th) and 85 points (5th) and first team all-star LW

    year eight: injury year for tocchet but he goes on to win the cup on a line with mario and stevens, marchand misses games and falls a little too but not nearly as much, putting up another 85 points (13th)

    year nine: another high end year for marchand, with a career high 100 points (5th again), before returning to the finals and leading the league in playoff scoring, tocchet also has a career year, with 48 goals (13th) and 109 points (15th)

    marchand is the higher end offensive player, but because tocchet played in a tougher era the difference isn't as big as their respective placements make it seem.



    Season
    AgeTmLgGPGAPTS+/-PIMAwards
    1984-8520PHINHL751425395179
    1985-8621PHINHL6914213514284
    1986-8722PHINHL6921284917288
    1987-8823PHINHL653133643299
    1988-8924PHINHL66453681-1183AS-5
    1989-9025PHINHL753759964196AS-5
    1990-9126PHINHL704031712150Hart-9
    1991-9227TOTNHL6127325915151
    1992-9328PITNHL80486110928252AS-4
    GPGAPTS+/-PIM
    630277326603871982



    SeasonAgeTmLgGPGAPTSAwards
    2010-1122BOSNHL77212041Calder-12,Selke-24
    2011-1223BOSNHL76282755AS-20,Selke-35
    2012-1324BOSNHL45181836AS-11,Selke-43
    2013-1425BOSNHL82252853
    2014-1526BOSNHL77241842
    2015-1627BOSNHL77372461AS-5,Selke-25
    2016-1728BOSNHL80394685AS-1,AS-8,Hart-7,Selke-12
    2017-1829BOSNHL68345185AS-4,Hart-11,Selke-10
    2018-1930BOSNHL793664100AS-2,Hart-5,Selke-16
    GPGAPTS+/-PIM
    661262296558199654



    SeasonAgeTmLgGPGAPTS+/-PIM
    1984-8520PHINHL19347-172
    1985-8621PHINHL5123126
    1986-8722PHINHL26111021772
    1987-8823PHINHL5145-155
    1988-8924PHINHL166612069
    1991-9227PITNHLSC1461319024
    1992-9328PITNHL127613224
    GPGAPTS+/-PIM
    973545808342


    SeasonAgeTmLgGPGAPTS+/-PIM
    2010-1122BOSNHLSC25118191240
    2011-1223BOSNHL7112-12
    2012-1324BOSNHL224913421
    2013-1425BOSNHL12055418
    2016-1728BOSNHL613416
    2017-1829BOSNHL1241317416
    2018-1930BOSNHL2491423414
    Career7 yrsNHL10830538328117
     
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